A Brief Interview With A Student Debt Activist About OWS

What follows is a brief interview with C. Cryn Johannsen of All Education Matters about the OWS movement.

1. Why are you getting involved with the "Occupy" movement?

There is an overwhelming number of young people who are driving this movement. Of course, there are people of all ages who are taking a role in the protests, and that's because it is resonating with so many Americans. The saying, "We are the 99%," makes sense. It's a powerful way to identify with other Americans. Many supporters have jobs, are doing well, etc. But they recognize, just like the protesters who have been hit hard financially and so forth, that our system, particularly our financial system, is out of whack.

I have a good friend, Dustin Slaughter, who has been involved with Occupy since it kicked off in lower Manhattan on the 17th of September. Dustin and I have known one another for quite some time, and we are both big supporters of each other's work. (Dustin, incidentally, launched a site called the David & Goliath Project, and is a documentary filmmaker). He's been documenting the protests, and I have used his work on my blog and also in publications for The Loop21.com. Dustin has taken amazing photos of signs about student loan debt and joblessness. The connection between the protests and my work as an advocate for student loan debtors is clear.

I have also been aware of this planned protest since AdBusters made the announcement this past summer. At the same time, October 2011 - a group in D.C. - also made a similar announcement and at the same time. That was not a coincidence. Plus, All Education Matters is listed as an organization that supports the October 2011 crew.

On another note, I literally spoke with hundreds of different types of people - activists like Dustin, authors like Barbara Ehrenreich, professors, debtors, etc. - this past summer about the dismal state of affairs in this country. Dustin, to his credit, in late February was hinting at the need for non-violent, civil disobedience. We had several conversations about it, but at that point I just couldn't seem to figure out HOW we could do it. AdBusters obviously GOT that part! These protests have made me realize that I was not the only person have these conversations. Something was happening at the collective level, and now we're seeing results - we're seeing action ON THE GROUND.

It is clear that people are fed up, and they are mobilizing to show the top 1% that they aren't gonna take it anymore. This movement is absolutely astonishing to me - as for my generation, we haven't seen anything like this before, and I think these young people need our full support. Sure. They might make errors - that's being human - but they are highly engaged, and want to play legitimate role in the political process. They, like most Americans, are tired of feeling shut out.

I think we, as Americans, are coming together for the first time, and we're learning to share our struggles with one another. In addition, I think there is a strong relationship between the 10th anniversary of 9-11 and occupy. And, mind you, I am not referring to the way it is and was exploited by politicians and - even more disgusting - corporations. I think revisiting that day was important. For instance, I spent a lot of time looking at old images and reading about folks who survived or perished that day. I was struck by one thing: how willing Americans were to help one another on that horrific day. The pictures of the firemen, as well as Fr. Mychal Judge (who was listed as the first victim on the ground), were haunting and painful to look at again. I spent a lot of time looking at the firemen walking UP the stairwells in the towers. As they walked up, people walked down. The first responders sacrificed their lives for other people. That's powerful stuff. I think a lot of Americans were reminded of how we can be kind towards one another, that we do still believe in community, and so forth.

I realize that the claim that there is a relationship between the 10th anniversary of 9-11 and occupy can't be "proven" from some social scientific way, but I think there is a definite connection.

So, as you can see, the movement resonates with me for a lot of reasons. I think, most importantly, we need to support the young folks who are out there protesting. As many of us know, they are the ones who are burdened with the most debt and are facing a job market that many economists have compared to the Great Depression. They do not deserve to be ridiculed or dismissed - that has happened for far too long. Like the rest of us, they just want to think they have a future. They want it back. Not only that, they have the guts to hit the streets, risk being injured to make a point. That makes me damned proud. These folks are true patriots, and we need to listen to them. It's time to start listening to one another. I think people who aren't a part of this are still filled with fury. That's because they, like you and me, have felt ignored for too long. It is clear that these events entail a lot of conversation, and I think that's great. When I was observing the mood at Occupy Austin, I was struck by how cheerful it was - people were smiling, there were families there . . . people even brought their dogs (some of which wore signs against corporate greed). It's clear that people are frustrated, but that these gatherings are giving them a sense of hope. Collective hope is a powerful thing - very powerful thing.

I see [these protests] as these radically democratic spaces within a brutal, oligarchic state. That is why, as Naomi Klein recently stated, this is the most important thing happening right now.

2. How are you getting involved?

I am currently trying to raise more funds to travel to various cities in the Heartland and the South to report about the protests. I was one of the first to report that the movement was spreading nationwide, and I think stories about how occupy is in these traditionally conservative states is worthy of attention. I also want to push against the way in which corporate media are trying to characterize the protesters and their demands. I have to draw a fine line between my work as an activist and my work as a freelance journalist. That's to say, I will report in an objective manner, so if I discover problematic things about the protests I attend, I will write about that.

But I have also played a role in helping folks disseminate information from various occupied cities across the U.S. That's just one way of helping out - that's being an engaged activist who cares about her fellow Americans.

In addition, I have prepared fliers for protesters to take to their local protests. These fliers are about my non-profit - I want the indebted folks to know that there is someone who works 6-7 days a week for them. That's my role as an activist. I created these fliers at the request of several people, and I know that they have printed these materials off and shared them with fellow protesters.

I am also writing a book about the student lending crisis (I have a wonderful literary agent who is working her tail off to sell my book). This movement will definitely be part of the narrative.

So, the movement is yet another way in which we - and that includes the scambloggers - can raise further awareness about the student lending crisis, the law school scam, etc. It's becoming easier to spread the word now that people are hitting the streets and sharing information with lots of folks on the ground. I am very grateful to these people -without them, AEM would not be alive and growing.

I also have plans to head to NYC. I am definitely going to D.C., but am currently working on a trip to lower Manhattan.

3. Do you see any relation between your fight for education reform and the OWS movement?

Yes. Absolutely. I think I answered that in the first two questions!

4. What do you think the goal of these demonstrations ultimately is, if there is no "concrete set of demands," as critics say?

You know, it's hard to say at this point. I think they are being very smart about NOT setting concrete demands at this point. To be sure, if you go to Occupy Wall Street's site, you will see a set of demands. But all the various cities that have seen strong turn outs - L.A., Chicago, Denver, Boston, etc. - have their own set of demands and desires. We're seeing radical democracy at its best. They are also avoiding being co-opted, and that is the strength in shying away from demands and nominating leaders (the movement is described as "leaderless"). I agree with a lot of older activists on these two things: I think it's smart and makes sense.

Again, this gets back to the youth who are part of this movement. They are learning things, and this movement is THEIR own. As I said, it's obviously not just young folks, but they are certainly driving it. We are not here to judge them. Plus, it is happening in such a different time than, for instance, the civil rights movement. As an older gentleman, who was involved in those protests, recently said to me, "that was a different period of time. Plus, we had to rely on telephones and meeting people face-to-face. This is different, with the Internet and social media. Plus, there was an obvious set of demands for the civil rights movement. That is not the case with this."

I absolutely agree with him.

Besides, this movement just got started. Who knows how it will grow in the next coming months and years? It is clear: the protesters are realizing that their relationships with one another will be long-term, and that means the movement is here to stay.

5. Should the universities be occupied? Why or why not?

Yes. Absolutely. Last week there was a call to Occupy Colleges, and at noon on Thursday (if memory serves me) students across the nation were urged to walk out in solidarity with occupy. This happened, and I know that protests against tuition hikes are occurring in Berkeley again. (The hashtag, incidentally, for this side of it is: #occupycolleges). I think we need to reach out to these students, because when they graduate - if things remain like they are or worsen - they are gonna need as much support as they can get. That's why our work is important. It will let them know they are not alone in their struggle. Occupy offers that space as well.